Department of O! for Heaven's Sake!

[rozk]

In one of the most spectacular pieces of idiocy I have seen in forty years of radical campaigning, the organizer of the Queer Youth Network (or possibly an organizer) has invited Julie Bindel to join the demonstration against Stonewall for shortlisting her. You can see much of the discussion of this at mr_parsnips where I have been accused of hypocrisy for announcing that, should Julie Bindel turn up, I shall - entirely verbally - make clear to her that she is not welcome as far as I am concerned. Having an open demonstration does not mean including in that demonstration the people that demonstration is against - the Washington Moratorium demonstrators did not welcome Nixon when he came out to chat to them.

And I am missing Sharpe to deal with this nonsense...

Later Later dialogue with Joey McKillop has not even begun to convince me that she has done the right thing, but it is clear that she is motivated by a desire to change things and an optimism about the usefulness of olive branches that I think misguided but admirable. She really does not understand that my generation has good reason for the bitterness we feel towards Bindel and her ilk; at the same time, she does not have a clear sense of what recantation from people with those views looks like, whereas I do, having watched the process with Linda Bellos.

As I said to Bindel, in a sceptical response to her (probably manipulative and cynical) plea that we not beat up on Joey, maybe the horse will learn to sing. At the same time, I fear Joey has done the community a colossal disservice, while being prepared to respect her motives and being touched by her optimism about human nature.

Comments

[paratti.livejournal.com]

Boggles with you.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

I thought (before the person responsible helpfully deleted the first post) that Bindel was being invited to a different demonstration somewhere else about something completely different?

[squigglefish.livejournal.com]

I checked. The QYN demonstration is at the same event, at the same place, at the same time...

[pirates-daily.livejournal.com]

I dunno, young people these days, no sense of proper decorum, etc.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

I know, it means that they are nicer and better than us, but really pretty hopeless when confronted with the actual malice of someone like JB. They got upset with me when I told them to get a clue - I mean, I didn't say Frakking Get a Frelling Clue - and I hope that they never discover the harshness of the world out there.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

And now they are hurt and wondering why people are shouting at them on Facebook...

[rozk.livejournal.com]

I was hideously principled at that age, but never this pig-headed.

[auntysarah.livejournal.com]

with the actual malice of someone like JB

As an aside, this is starting to freak me out. She's sent me 2 friend requests on FB, which I've ignored. I know she's been combing my LJ, and now, this evening, she PMs me via FB with a bodyless message and the subject:

Stop harassing me.

Starting to actually feel a bit stalked and freaked out, and worrying what she might be capable of.

[drakyn.livejournal.com]

0.0
What the hell?

[zoeimogen.livejournal.com]

I was thinking the same thing too, I just didn't want to be... ageist?

One wonders about the look of horror on their face when they realise what the real world is like. I'm sure I wasn't like that when I was a teenager, and that was only 12 years ago...

Your link doesn't work

[(Anonymous)]

Mr Parsnips seems to have run off in a hideous snit. This link should work

http://community.livejournal.com/tguk/201483.html?#cutid1

I think we need to start teaching these kids "radfem evil 101" and that you cannot barter with those whose idea of compromise is for you to surrender absolutely.

Re: Your link doesn't work

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is that there is only one parsnip (unbuttered, natch): try mr_parsnip. It's a weird and frustrating Alice-in-Wonderland, world where bigots protest against themselves and all must have prizes. I just hope this hasn't scuppered the protest proper.

Re: Your link doesn't work

[(Anonymous)]

I've followed the original thread I pointed and must conclude that either jamiethegrey is stupid beyond belief or is actually a Bindel sympathiser actively working to undermine the protest.

And being wholly the latter does not preclude being quite a bit of the former. Radfems have their evasion tactics down pat don't they ?

Re: Your link doesn't work

[rozk.livejournal.com]

No, I think jamiethegrey is real and young and pig-headed and naive, and punishing us angry transwomen for being his mummy or his grandma or something...

Re: Your link doesn't work

[squigglefish.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't go so far as the punishing part, but certainly they are young, naive and overly trusting. I feel sorry for them, but also in a way glad, as it must be nice to be that innocent :P

Re: Your link doesn't work

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, stupid enough to play with fire, but it's us that will get burnt.

Re: Your link doesn't work

[(Anonymous)]

Well whatever, they don't seem to care about or understand the real danger she poses to us with her influence or the real distress she has caused to individuals in the community.

The idea of this protest being a safe space where we can voice our dismay at stonewall is deeply compromised by what QYN have done and I really don't know how I feel about attending. I was near her at Hecklers and she made my skin crawl, I don't know if I want to do that again.

Re: Your link doesn't work

[auntysarah.livejournal.com]

She won't be there, if I have any say whatsoever in it (and I do).

Can we draft a statement?

[squigglefish.livejournal.com]

I am considering putting a formal statement of sorts on the QYN thread, were they are acting very indignant about the upset over this.

I'd like to address the core issues with their actions and explain exactly why everyone is so very upset by this. I'm drained from fighting the wank live, so I'd appreciate a more experienced hand weighing in. Ideally we should also recognise that the core fault here is not malicious, but rather one of naivety - a lack of experience and knowledge. I doubt they know about the history of liberation campaigning and No Platform policies.

It should also be framed around how the core concept is nice, but nowhere near enough steps have been taken for this to be at all valid.

Re: Can we draft a statement?

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Sure - are you on AIM? or Google chat? Or Facebook chat?

Re: Can we draft a statement?

[squigglefish.livejournal.com]

Sent you a PM with a selection of contact details within :)

Re: Can we draft a statement?

[rozk.livejournal.com]

I've just friended you on Facebook.

Re: Can we draft a statement?

[squigglefish.livejournal.com]

Ahh, facebook's notification system had been taking it's time with me - accepted!

[natalie-456.livejournal.com]

massive fail. massive massive fail.

We didn't go up to the Nazi's and say "oh, well, you were really, really wrong, but you've changed right?" without them needing to prove they've changed.

[zoeimogen.livejournal.com]

In one of the most spectacular pieces of idiocy I have seen in forty years of radical campaigning

OK, I'm glad it's not just be that thinks this is dumb beyond belief.

I'm all for getting a consensus going, as lack of that is what has hurt GT and PfC... but, please...?!

[auntysarah.livejournal.com]

Since you're on the CC list, you'll know this now anyway, but for the benefit of others, it seems that someone may have rather exceeded their brief, and that inviting Bindel as a guest is absolutely not something QYN would support.

[snakey.livejournal.com]

That's a relief....

mair

[(Anonymous)]

letter sent in to Dr PARSNIPS
Julie Bindel will use anyone and any anything for her own purpose, If you look at all her comments on face book she says again and again that she will not put up with misogynist attacks on her by the trans,. She says this again and again And why does she say this She says it because she is saying that trans women are really men who hate women And that trans are men and as such are violent towards her as a woman .
Radical feminist lesbianism is like one of those fanatical religious cults You are either with them or against them There is no compromise. I saw it first hand .Lesbian feminist communes did not allow men or trans or women with a male child into their houses . I knew of several women who had a male child and they were told that the boy child wasn't allowed inside . I also knew of one woman who had a small boy child who was forced by these lesbians and their radical feminist ideas to give up her boy child .And Im sure that happened more than once .
I'm afraid that Julie Bindel can not be trusted . If she has had second thoughts about trans and now acknowledge them as woman the decent thing to do would be to say so in writing ,So has not done that . She has once again muddied the water and is using dirty tactics to try and divide the trans community . I would not let her .
If she does go to the demo I think she should be completely ignored until she formally acknowledge that trans women are women and that she is sorry about her attacks on them. There can be no dialogue until all this is done in writing ,
The one thing that is most important here is that the trans community should stick together old and young. So if you have had recent disagreements between yourselves make amends quickly . Julie Bindel would just love to see you in disarray and fighting among yourselves . Mair

[snakey.livejournal.com]

my generation has good reason for the bitterness we feel towards Bindel and her ilk - not just your generation, either. *sigh* I'm mystified by how McKillop/QYN think this is a good idea....

And as a long-term Sharpe fan, there's now another wrong to lay at the door of Bindel & Stonewall. Have a Sharpe icon to make up for it a little. ;)

More seriously, though - wish I could go to the protest on Thurs, but I had chest surgery this weekend and don't think I'm going to be going anywhere...my thoughts are with you all though.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

That is a very cool icon...

I will find a viewable copy somewhere - people are kind. Sorry to have pulled generational rank on the 'oppression by radfems' front - I know they have crapped on people younger than I am and have probably not got less vicious with the years.