(no subject)

[rozk]

Someone posted an attack on me on the Guardian website here. What they said was pretty hateful:

There is a unsubtle truth here gay men don't want to fuck with blokes with fake cocks lesbians want real girly parts surely no shock there.

Roz K aka Chris Biggins in drag is ugly and no one wants to shag it hence the fuss at pride and attention seeking.

Lets party with the glamourous drag queens and forget the ugly trannies and girls with nailed on penises, they are nuttters.

So I replied:

Gosh, well, that's me told.

Ugly and fat and (allegedly) no one wants to shag me...

Those are real killer arguments there, thiadous; I am surprised that the Guardian isn't offering you a column right now. The first two are, after all, a strongly expressed version of what is ultimately a matter of opinion, and the third is a matter of fact on which you have clearly done absolutely no worthwhile research whatsoever - your master has taught you well, young padawan.

I'd just like to point out to Julie Bindel and her supporters how quickly they find themselves in the same camp as ill-mannered trolls and Duanna Johnson's killers once they deny people's rights and start descending to vulgar abuse.

So Julie Bindel rebuked thiadous for his misogyny, which was sweetly gallant of her, I suppose.

And I said - or rather would have said something like this, because they closed the comments while my comment was loading -

'Julie, nice to know that you are still here and paying attention, but I really do not need you to be gallant. As I am sure you have noticed, I can take care of myself. As you will also have noticed, I always disapprove of vulgar abuse, given that it is so much more fun to respond with actual wit and intelligence.

The moment you disrespect people's deepest and most personal choices, you open discussion up to bar-room bigots like thaidous, which makes your disapproval of his comments somewhat hypocritical. You don't regard me as a woman, so why should you care? Oh, I know, because he is using language associated with misogyny - but don't you see that in this matter your instinct to defend me is sounder than your instinct to deny my experience?

The fact of the matter is that, like other trans people, I agonized over my decision for longer than you can quite imagine - for five years during which I considered endlessly the version of your arguments current in radical circles in the 1970s. You act - and I do not understand how you can act - as if you believe I and others like me have never heard these arguments before. Believe me when I say that I considered them for years and found them wanting.

And live with the consequences of my decisions - the danger and the abuse and the health problems. If I am as fat and ugly as thaidous claims, that too is one of those consequences...

Yet I live with consequences that you cannot possibly imagine - I have not regretted a single day of the last thirty years. Most of the time I live in bliss, useful and creative and respected and admired and loved - none of this would have been possible had I spent those thirty years talking to some therapist and hating myself.'

But alas! the Guardian cut off an even more eloquent and heartfelt version of that even as it posted and the world will never know its perfection - interesting that they closed comments just after Bindel stuck her head in and tried to claim a little bit of moral high ground. Luckily, the very last comment was Natasha's - so we got the last word.

Comments

[going-not-gone.livejournal.com]

I am sorry you're having to deal with so much nastiness. And I admire, greatly, your ability to rise above it.

[parallelgirl.livejournal.com]

seconded. This is appalling. I haven't been commenting here much, but I've been reading your work with my usual awe, and Bindel's with my usual horror.

[scattykat.livejournal.com]

Love you Roz!
I don't know how I would have climbed out from such a personal attack but you did it with dignity and poise I can only aspire to!

You *really* are a Star!

-xxx-

[natalie-456.livejournal.com]

^^this. You really are an inspiration Roz

The only 'fake cock' around here is Thiadous

[(Anonymous)]

*hugs* Dear Roz, you are an inspiration!

Bindel has acted honourably in denouncing Thiadous' disgusting comment. However, I hope Bindel realises that it is her views and her writing of those views in The Guardian/Comment Is Free which makes Thiadous think it is acceptable to spout such contemptible filth.

It just goes to show what manner of reader the Grauniad attracts these days. I was taught to respect the 'quality' broadsheets (especially the liberal ones) for their lofty ideals. Seems like the broadsheets have dropped their ambitions and high ideals in favour of sensationalism to attract some of the tabloid market. Most of the 'quality' and intelligence seems to have migrated over to other formats (e.g. LiveJournal).

Thanks also for your recent posts about the Stonewall/Bindel furore and other examples of transphobia. You are a shining light and a much loved big sis to us fledgling trans activists.

Bless you.

Christina xx

Re: The only 'fake cock' around here is Thiadous

[finopalomino.livejournal.com]

Almost as soon as the Guardian went online it was seen as blood in the water for the right wing. If you hang out in GU Talk - especially the International section - for a while you quickly realise that the majority of posts express views that are not ones that you would normally associate with readers of the print version. Troll central, in other words.

It would be easy at the moment to conflate the Guardian's lack of judgment in giving a forum to Bindel with the gutterstorm that rages in its talkboards. But really it has little control over the latter. Though it does try to moderate, its own policies with regard to language (it opened the door to the word 'fuck' in its print pages back in the 90s, and opened it wide) foreclose the simple options in regulating what is expressed. And I doubt that it wants to get all Washington Post and have fainting fits about how it is shocked, shocked to discover people are angry out there.

That said, great job, Roz! Does anyone have any inside knowledge as to how letters to the print version work? Is there a 'best person' for writing them? Does one tap the letters editor on the proverbial shoulder first? I'm not in the UK so I don't get to see the print version very often but rightly or wrongly I see a letter there as being more of record and less ephemeral than an internet comment thread. And no, I'm not volunteering to write one!

[cherylmmorgan.livejournal.com]

Like Christina said, you are an inspiration.

[wild-irises.livejournal.com]

I am simply glad that you are in the world.

[blahflowers.livejournal.com]

Do we know that was JB and not someone who had just registered the name for a laugh? After all, it seems odd to *just* rebuke that person and not mention the other trolls and what they said? On the other hand, ignoring most of what is said in a thread is a typical JB tactic.

[d-aulnoy.livejournal.com]

Dittoing everyone in this thread who's praised your poise and presence - you're a rock and an inspiration to the rest of us.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Stylish.

[mevennen.livejournal.com]

I am appalled at the comments. You have handled them with great class.

[bohemiancoast.livejournal.com]

That is a very ugly comment -- but actually it's not so different from the sentiments expressed in Julie Bindel's original column, which was very very close to 'Isn't it great that we've got some decent civil rights for gay men and lesbians, but I really hate the way all these *other* groups are jumping on our bandwagon and their kink is not my kink and ooh icky.' Which is basically complete crap and she should be called on it.

[pogodragon.livejournal.com]

Hi, I've friended you because I was being linked to so many interesting things you've written by various other people on my friend list, I hope that's ok. I know you from various SF things that we've both been at, but I don't think I've ever spoken to you in 'real life'.

I don't wade through the comments on Guardian boards that have huge numbers of responses (pretty much for the reasons one of the earlier commenters said - too much of a breeding ground for trolls), but I am glad that there are people who are willing to be in there and engaging them.

[girfan.livejournal.com]

Roz, you rock!

[nmg.livejournal.com]

But alas! the Guardian cut off an even more eloquent and heartfelt version of that even as it posted and the world will never know its perfection

There needs to be a name for this C21st version of l'esprit d'escalier. Nonetheless, your original response was more than classy enough, and nicely succinct.

I'm also curious of la Bindel's reason for denouncing thaidous specifically as a misogynist. Was it because of what they said, or who they said it to?

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Well obviously the only reason anyone does anything is to try to get laid. Didn't you know?

Sorry you had to put up with those sort of comments.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Looks like his/her comment has been deleted. Fracking moron. Good luck with the campaign, and I hope that things like this will make Julie Bindel realise that her platform isn't exactly flawless.

[slightlyfoxed.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's hateful (and just *icky* - 'hurrah for gender variance as long as I think it's sexy'?). Nice comeback, I hope it filters through to JB (I can't believe she won't be reading your blog by now).

And not the main point, but a good opportunity to say you looked great at the protest. Demo chic - hard to pull off.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

I'd love to believe that JB reads this - because then there would be some hope for her - but I suspect that it would be too much like a crash course in acting like a human being...

[paulathomas.livejournal.com]

In my experience ad hon. attacks of this sort only occur when someone knows they've lost.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

Her rebuking the writer of that hateful message reminds me of McCain trying to quiet his followers who booed at the mention of Obama: do these "leaders" think their own words have no effect? Do they have no grasp of the idea that there are a certain group of people who are just waiting for some authority figure to give them an excuse?

[the-maenad.livejournal.com]

Roz, you're worth a dozen Julie Bindels, with a hundred thiadouches thrown in as a lucky bag. I revere you.

Rock on, les vieux.

Totentanz

[(Anonymous)]

He's wrong. Plainly, trivially wrong. If i happen to be no one, as per his definition conditioned on the presence of the particular volitional element in my consciousness - then no one is Totentanz. Still someone wrote this reply and it's me, Totentanz who wrote it. So someone is no one or is it no one is someone? This gives rise to suspicion that the logic there might possibly be in some way what out of my excessive politeness i would prefer to call 'copulated up'. Are you still following me, people? *giggles*