In the matter of AppropriationGate, RaceFail 09 or the Cultural Appropriation Debate of DOOM Part 2

[rozk]

Jane Carnell has said sensibly and helpfully that this is generating more heat than light and that it is sensible to walk away from it. I feel that it has become a discussion devoted to making some people feel good and others less good than a discussion of ways to move forward. I came to it in order to try and minimize harm and maximize dialogue; I have ended up by becoming a part of the problem, a part of the hurt, and possibly a part of the harm. I do not think that there is anything further I can usefully contribute, and so I will take a vow of silence for the rest of the debate and only monitor the bits of it that come directly my way.

What else will I do? I will try to be at least as, and preferably more, inclusive in the range of characters included in my fiction and, if I borrow material from cultures which are not part of my heritage, to do so with some attention and sensitivity. I will pay even greater attention than I already did to what my POC friends, allies and acquaintances say about my unconscious assumptions of white privilege.

I will try not to confuse taking a posture for self therapy, self praise or self promotion with actual politics; I will try not to make it all about me.

However, I shall also look after myself and walk away more from triggers; I will weigh what is said to me against experience and logic and not regard myself as debarred from asking awkward questions; I will go on trying to understand people's ideas and behaviours in a context that units all their identities and all of their experiences and try not to rush to judgement on who they are and why.

And will expect the same from others.

A very little time later However, if people attack me over stuff I have already said, I will come out of silence to defend myself, because I am not completely daft.

Somewhat later still If people I don't know have been attacking me, I would really appreciate it if I could be linked to their criticisms. I need to learn stuff.

Later yet again I can normally engage in all sorts of discussions without being triggered,, but the specific trope of other people telling me that they, intrinsically, know what is going on in the back of my skull better than I do turns out to be a major issue for me.

It's not so much that it is liable to make me depressed, though; it is that, because I suffer from clinical depression, as well as because I am trans, it is a sore point.I am sure that none of the people who have commented in various places about my withdrawal from the debate meant to come across as me not having the guts to take criticism; what I was concerned about was that I would further lose my temper and stop being useful to trying to quieten things down.

Oh, and I really don't see myself as even in the third rank of post-war feminists involved in popular culture, though an embarrassed thanks to whoever said that; I am but an humble foot-soldier. Who gets things wrong.

Comments

[ianmcdonald.livejournal.com]

been keeping my wee head under the parapet while the live fire rages on this debate, but your second paragraph says more or less all that may usefully be done.

[andrewducker]

However, if people attack me over stuff I have already said, I will come out of silence to defend myself, because I am not completely daft.

I'd be careful about being drawn back in to arguments that way. I've sometimes found it better to do exactly whatyou've done here (make a statement of your position) and then leave the argument entirely alone. Mind you, that's been when dealing with people who are never going to see my side of things, so I wasn't going to get anything out of defending myself.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I think backing away from the whole mess (which from my perspective of white privilege and female and queer oppression) is a wise and sensible thing to do. It doesn't seem like anyone's listening to reason at the moment and it risks turning into a game of 'oppresseder than thou'. Your instincts here are good. Respect others, respect yourself, take responsibility when you screw up, because you inevitably will. Nobody's perfect.

[jiawen]

From what I understand, this is actually Part 3 (or even possibly part 4, I think, depending on how you count).

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

And hi! there and welcome.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

HUGS :o)

I've avoided getting involved in what has been an admittedly fascinating (and largely well mannered) discussion precisely because this sort of stuff contains just so many triggers for me (if you look in my back blog you'll know why).

I long ago became fed up with reciting trans 101, Roma ancestry 101, Jewish ancestry 101, partners of different ethnicity 101, working class origin 101 victim of bullying 101 etc etc...........:o(

And just don't get me started on the Anglo-Italian jibes!

Lordy! Did I ever collect the full set? :o)

It eventually wears just a little thin. Would that race were the only issue of prejudice we have to face up to, rather than one of the worst.

Sigh :o(

[legionseagle.livejournal.com]

So - you don't do Irish 101 [ducking and running]?

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

:oP

No, Irish is about the one ancestry I can't claim :o)

It was English, Italian, Breton, Scottish, Roma and Latvian Jewish at the last count :o)

[jiawen]

Hi! I've been reading your LJ for a while and hadn't had anything salient to add til now. :) Thanks, though, for all your work with Bindel.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

"I object to being told that other people know my triggers better than I do."

Oh, and THIS! :o)

[kathrync.livejournal.com]

Backing away from a flame war is almost always the right thing to do. There are very few circumstances in which its not.

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this post, Roz. I am so happy to see it, for so many reasons. It is a tonic against the apathy that some other people have quite tellingly described recently.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

We don't know each other, but I did want to say thank you for making this post. And I am also glad you are finding ways to keep yourself in good emotional health while dealing with difficult and fraught issues. I realize that last sentence may come off weird, and I've tried to re-write it, but I am sincere. I struggle with depression, both seasonal and the regular kind, and it can be really difficult to keep oneself on a somewhat even keel.

[annafdd.livejournal.com]

Me too, and the last two weeks have been incredibly emotionally draining. To the point that I have had two very small psychotic breaks.

Take care of your health. We have only so much to give. Today at my counseling class the tutor said that 20 hours a week is the maximum that a therapist does - and if you've been anyway like me, you've been involved in this far more than that.

[x-mass.livejournal.com]

i found it very useful to get some clarity about my thinking as posted to my journal

and jane is wonderful as ever!

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

After you posted in my journal, I came back to read some threads--and I guess the way you express the last ETA is part of why I was uneasy: "If people I don't know have been attacking me..."

Criticism or critique is not necessarily a synonym of attack (and critique of ideas and posts is not necessarily a personal attack). It gets darn confused when emotions run high, I know, and criticism can feel like an attack at times.

It was an attack

[(Anonymous)]

It was clearly an attack on RK, full of entitled malice and sheer spite. It was petty, small-minded and reeked of academic wannabes trying to make themselves feel big.

It's the bad side of the internet, enabling nobodies to be mean-minded shits.

Re: It was an attack

[annafdd.livejournal.com]

I saw it as an attack too.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Critique of ideas is not necessarily a personal attack, but the exchange I saw and commented on in large measure was. Clearly you think otherwise.

[marydell.livejournal.com]

Good post!

[t0t3ntanz.livejournal.com]

i won't say what i think, except it's cases like this that get two-digit numbers added to people's web nicks here and there now and then. And before you ask, no, 0 and 3 mean nothing.

Mair

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not getting into this because I cant see it getting anywhere.
But I would like to tell you about a conversation I had lately over the phone.
I know this trans girl. I go out occasionally with her . She comes from Asia but has lived over here for many years.She has houses over here that she rents out .She told me that she had contacted a letting agency . She said to me that she didn't want any Indians in her house because they cook rice and would mess up her kitchen . I said you cant say that to the agency it sounds racist . I know she said I might get arrested . She said the agency asked her all these questions about the nationality of the people she wanted in her house. So I told them she said that I am not European, my skin colour is brown but have mostly Europeans living in my house and that they would find it difficult if there were too many different kinds of cooking in the kitchen all the different smells. She thought that she had somehow said the right thing. Is she being racist? Were the letting agency being racist asking her what nationality of people she wanted renting from her. I was left speechless but amused at her audacity .I think I'm really an anarchist.

Re: Mair

[fjm.livejournal.com]

The agency broke the law. Dead simple.

Re: Mair

[geekyisgood.livejournal.com]

I'd agree. Besides, indians might eat more rice, true, but us Europeans eat rice too! I don't see why cooking rice messes up a kitchen, please enlighten me.

Re: Mair

[fjm.livejournal.com]

I really, really hope she gets sent some nice white British lads who order take away curry every night.