I thought it was settled

[rozk]

(One or two of you may have seen an earlier version of this post which I deleted by accident)

I had pretty much made up my mind about the t-word.

After all, a huge majority of the trans community - including a lot of younger people - have decided that the word is hate speech, that it is unacceptable in any context, not just as a shout in the street, or a smear in the press, or something said on television. I never felt that strongly - of my four and a half decades in the community, it has only been in the last decade or less that I was ever made to think of it as an insult, rather than as a diminutive that could be used positively or negatively. I intervened in recent controversies because of matters of fact and accusations of untruth in a matter in which I, by dint of being around still, could speak for people who are in some cases a quarter of a century dead. I feel no tie to the word sufficient to make me oppose a clear consensus who are a lot more upset by it than I am.

This is why, though I love Kate Bornstein as a dear friend, I told her the other night that she should bow to popular pressure in this matter, even though I deprecate the attacks on her. I am not going to the stake for a word I don't especially like, even though I have felt bullied by some people's tone on this, especially when they seemed to be telling me that I could not have had experiences I had decades ago.

However, experience is all.

This afternoon, the London TDOR ceremony was incredibly powerful and moving. I got to do my poem - there was some wonderful music - the reading of the names was so affecting that the readers broke down a few times, especially when they got to the toddler in the USA murdered for not being butch enough.

A singer came on at the end - she is wonderful and a friend and I am not going to drag her name into it so that people who were not there can vilify her. She sang 'Good to Mother' and 'Changes' and a version of the old Peggy Lee song 'Woman' rewritten as 'Tranny'. One or two people may have been outraged, but most of the sixty or so people present were cheering, laughing and beating out the rhythm on our desks. There were tears of joy where a few minutes before there had just been tears.

So maybe it does depend on context after all. Maybe in the right context it can be life-affirming. That's what I experienced anyway.

Now shoot me

Later There is a point here which I had to think about during the comments, which is that my assumption that there is in fact a huge majority against the word because a lot of people in the blogosphere say that there is, is not a correct one. Actually, I don't know what the community thinks - I know the very varying views of my friends, and what I had come to think.

I unequivocally withdraw any talk of a majority - I genuinely do not know whether there is one or not. There clearly wasn't yesterday.

On a broader point, we need to beware - and I take my own position in this very self critically - of establishing orthodoxy through online communication. Apart from anything else, itis so very easy to be persuaded not that something is necessarily true, but that it might well be true, and that all the cool kids are saying it is.

Comments

[kiplet.livejournal.com]

There are no absolutes; nothing is lost forever; anything can be redeemed. Context is all because it's all we've got, really.

[shelleybear.livejournal.com]

Years ago, there was a cartoon (in of all places Playboy).
It had a picture of an outhouse.
The door had a reasonable timeline of the evolution of society.
Beginning with the "N" word, coon,black, Negro, African American, etc.
I tend to view "Tranny" in much the same way.
A word that seems to have lots it's acceptability tied more to changes in society then anything else.
To me, it just seems silly.
Because, let's face it.
No matter what word they may use, the hate mongers are still going to try and kill us.

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

I have to say I was wondering what you'd think about that, considering your last few posts on LJ. I think it is a word which can be reclaimed, like queer, and the singer was so marvellous and she blew a kiss at me at the end :DDDDDDD

[lisaquestions.livejournal.com]

I know one person who was extremely unhappy with that song, but I wasn't there and don't have much to say wrt it.

I think my own stance is often mistaken for something it isn't, as it never was really "other trans people need to never use this word." And I am more concerned about the attitudes that drive how cis people use the word, or occasionally how the word is used in - say - prime time television while other slurs receive fines. Or how a popular TV show receives an award from GLAAD for being LGBT positive while using that word very deliberately in a negative and uncritical way (or another anti-trans slur).

Like, I don't care what Kate Bornstein calls herself, but I think it's a bit over the top to ask us all to adopt the same language.

Also, from cis people, I haven't ever heard a good, non-slur/hateful use.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Either it is hate speech or it is not.

Kate is not the Pope of Trans; she can argue for whatever she likes and none of us have to listen to her.

The uses of the word and others like it in Glee are, as far as I am concerned, clearly signalled as terms that are used by ignorant hostile people. Sue Sylvester is a mess of a person who constantly says anything that will put other people at a disadvantage; Mike Chang's parents use of the word is clearly signalled as them being bigoted by the fact it potentially cripples the show.

As to your blanket condemnation of use of the term by cis people, are you really saying that I can use it around the house but that my cis girlfriend can't occasionally say it? Or that I can't use it in front of her for fear that she might?

[lisaquestions.livejournal.com]

None of us have to listen to her but many people do listen to her, and as much of her gender theory appeals to cis people, anything she says ends up in academia and used by queer theorists. She's not a lone voice in the wilderness and I think it's necessary to at least consider the impact of one's words before speaking them. It'll be great when the cis gender/queer theorists adopt the rallying cry that trans people ought to all call ourselves trannies, you know?

You and I are going to disagree forever on Glee. I do not believe the terms were clearly signaled as anything. Glee clearly signaled a homophobic slur and made a point of demonstrating how it's a slur and why it is bad, but the two transphobic slurs were simply used uncritically and without comment. When I look around I see people who think Sue Sylvester is cool because she's all edgy and mean. It's behavior that people idolize and mimic all over the place, so yeah.

I am not sure what you and your girlfriend say at home reflects what I was saying about the use in the media or the general trend of using the term as a dismissive slur.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

There does seem to be an assumption in much of what you say that all cis people are transphobic unless constantly certified otherwise, and that we have constantly to consider anything we say in the light of how it might be misonstrued or misapplied.

I find this very worrying because it implies self-censorship internally imposed in a group that already has difficulty finding an autonomous voice.

The homophobic slur was sat on because the gay character had a supportive father - Glee is drama and this was as much character portrayal as ideology. The show constantly shows Sue to be a charismatic dangerous mess - she is the sometimes attractive antagonist to Will's deeply flawed protagonist. Like a lot of pairings in Murphy's work, they are each other's shadow.

Where are these people who think Sue is a positive portrayal? At a training school for sociopaths. I'm more worried that they are imitating Jack Bauer.

You also have a tendency to shift your ground - you did not say that no cis mediausage could be OK; you said that no cis usage is OK. You can't suddenly shift when I call you on that - actually you can and do it all the time.

When I change your mind and decide I mis-spoke, I try to remember to signal the fact.

We have to share a planet - I share a bed - with cis people. I'm not sure it is helpful constantly to assume their malevolence.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Also, since I can't comment on Bird of Paradox because Helen BOP has closed comments, I do think it a bit much for her to talk here (http://www.birdofparadox.net/blog/?p=9139#respond) as if the clear passionate happiness with the song by the overwhelming majority of those present were a personal affront to her. When she, and other people, talk about its being offensive to a clear majority of the community, I do find myself wondering when the poll was and who elected anyone to say so. A significant majority of trans bloggers and net activists have taken the position up, that's clear - no-one actually has a democratic mandate or anything.

I do worry a bit that some of us are regarding ourselves as the enlightened vanguard who have to lead our people out of darkness and night.

[swarmingness.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your thought on this issue Roz. I feel there are so many positions on "tranny" that context, ultimately, is all. I cringed a little when I read Kate Bornstein's casual dismissal of the offensive potential of the word in the otherwise amazing "Gender Outlaws: The Next Generation", given the horrific way in which it has been used again my friends, but I cringe also every time I read trans blogs that proclaim that the word is irredeemably evil. I think they're making themselves sound utterly irrelevant to the large number of trans people (including trans women!) who happily describe themselves as "trannies".

Regarding BOP in particular: I was concerned also to see Helen repeating the assertion that trans men and genderqueer people shouldn't reclaim "tranny". Trans guys and many genderqueer people may be less likely to experience the slur, but that really doesn't mean that it doesn't happen quite regularly.

[bird-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

swarmingness: Regarding BOP in particular: I was concerned also to see Helen repeating the assertion that trans men and genderqueer people shouldn't reclaim "tranny"

Where in my post do I assert that?

[swarmingness.livejournal.com]

I realise my language was a little strong here. However, I felt that the implication was fairly clear from your post (http://www.birdofparadox.net/blog/?p=9139):

"While the t-word makes me physically squirm with discomfort, if a TS/TG woman wishes to reclaim it for herself, that is her prerogative and I will respect her decision to use it about herself."..."See Tobi Hill-Meyer's 2008 critique Is 'Tranny' Offensive? to understand why I use a descriptor as specific as 'TS/TG woman' in the paragraph above"

Tobi Hill-Meyer (http://nodesignation.com/?p=32) says:

"The issue of reclaiming the term is further complicated, though. You see, while I have been discussing the impact the term has had on trans people, the reality is that it is trans women who have most directly targeted by it. Trans men have been comparably invisible in the sex and porn industries, and the trans men porn that exists today is almost exclusively produced by trans men. Yet a significant portion, arguably a majority, of the effort to reclaim the term has been made by trans men. Usually by trans men who are not familiar with the negative history of the term, let alone having been subjected to it’s sting themselves.

It is difficult to know what to think about that gender breakdown. When I run into a group of trans men who frequently use the term, I am not sure whether to thank them for creating community use of a new and positive meaning behind the term, or to criticize them for their insensitivity and lack of awareness of how the term might hold a lot of trauma for those of us who have been the direct targets of its use."

---

When reading your post, I therefore felt that it was implied that it is the prerogative of a TS/TG woman to reclaim "tranny" on a personal level if she desires, but not a trans man or otherwise FtM spectrum individual. Several other people felt similarly upon reading the post.

I find this troubling when many trans guys I know are regularly called "trannies" by bigots and wish to reclaim the term on a personal level in the light of this.

[bird-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

swarmingness: OK, let me try one last time: what I'm saying is that I don't like the t-word and I choose not use it.

However, if other people choose to use it for themselves, then that it is their prerogative.

In return, I ask that other people respect my wish that they don't use the word about me.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

But how exactly does that work?

By meaning that you experience extreme discomfort in a room of other trans people who are happy about a particular use of it, what you are doing is refusing to be part of a community that does that because of the implication that if you are there, you are condoning it.

No one is making you use it. but you are effectively demanding - 'don't use the word about me that no one in a community of which you are part use it positively about themselves as a part of that community. That's clearly your position from your tweets - 'How could anyone think this is a good idea?'

Since people have been criticizing Kate for putting her own views ahead of some sort of assumed general will of the trans community, isn't it a bit ironic to set your own individual feelings in this debate ahead of the clear feelings of an actual manifestation of trans community?

Especially when, as it happens, the occasion was a release of positive emotion at the end of a herrowing ceremony. You didn't let yourself get that release and you are implicitly blaming everyone who did.

[bird-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

Roz: When she, and other people, talk about its being offensive to a clear majority of the community, I do find myself wondering when the poll was and who elected anyone to say so.

The phrase a clear majority of the community is either hugely or moderately offended by the term is yours; from your post of 17 November (http://rozk.livejournal.com/371542.html). It appears in my post as a direct quote from your post, with the source attributed. Please don't put words in my mouth.

A significant majority of trans bloggers and net activists have taken the position up, that's clear - no-one actually has a democratic mandate or anything.

I do worry a bit that some of us are regarding ourselves as the enlightened vanguard who have to lead our people out of darkness and night.

If that's a sideswipe at me, once again I ask you not to put words in my mouth. I have never considered myself - or claimed - to be part of any "enlightened vanguard". At this exact moment I'm not even sure I consider myself part of the 'trans community', however that may be defined.

[rozk.livejournal.com]

When I said it, I was assuming that it was the case because a lot of the blogosphere had talked as it it was; I am now less convinced than I was that it is the case.

I am not putting words in your mouth if you quote me.

I don't see how your anger with the people at the ceremony yesterday can be parsed as not feeling more enlightened than them, frankly, or your post. And 'people who attend a TDOR ceremony' is about as good a definition of trans community as I can think of.

[bird-of-paradox.livejournal.com]

Thanks Roz.

This thread has given me much to think about and I will perhaps return later with a further comment when my thoughts are more organised.

[scattermoon.livejournal.com]

I personally would not use the word in regards to myself (the only time I ever did was when I was heavily drunk and trying to slash my wrists apart), and will object to anyone referring to me as such, however I shall not police others the right to use the word as self-identification if they so choose.

[x-mass.livejournal.com]

if the singer was the old friend of yours that I think your referring to I would have loved to have met her, especially as we share an even older friend than you in common. as it is my brain decided that saturday I was going to sleep for 17 hours so missed it, and polyday and bifest birmingham all of which were happening that day.

do you remember doing wadham queer week some 17/18 years ago and do a thing on trans. did you know that as a direct result of that a trans group got set up at oxford university and ran for several years.

i mention it only because on thursday i was at a trans 101 session at wadham queer week and i asked the question about tranny and the opinions were diverse. It was good session with explicit acknowledgement of the diversity of trans. Although I did like the pythonesc moment when one of the speakers was saying about how "we are all normal" and I raised my hand and said "I'm not"

the more I say I'm a tranny the more inclusive and powerful it feels, the more akido the movement feels, it feels like I'm pulling the poisoned barb from others abuse and allowing myself to say "so I'm a fucking tranny and..."

[rozk.livejournal.com]

Not that singer - another friend...

I didn't know about the group...

[papersky.livejournal.com]

I really like your last paragraph there and I'm going to try to keep reminding myself of it. Thank you.